Re: Ensuring Translation Quality

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Chris Leonard <cjlhomeaddress@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Urmas <davian818@gmail.com> wrote:
>> From: "Urmas" <davian818@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Ensuring Translation Quality
>>
>> The following locales have _less than 65%_ of strings translated (site statistics is not correct as it includes fuzzy strings):
>
> The misleading statistics are disappointing, I would note that  Pootle
> does a much better job of presenting clear statistics on translated,
> untranslated, and fuzzy strings.
>
>>
>> es-MX
>
> I quite agree with not building an es-MX version, although not for the
> reason stated.  I performed a merge on es_ES and es_MX when I imported
> them into Pootle, fserrador reviewed the merged file and worked to
> resolve conflicts between the two PO files.
>
> The exclusion of an es-MX variant is not meant as an insult to the
> Mexican localizers who worked to create it, in fact, fserrador
> acknowledged that a number of the es_MX strings were improvements over
> the previous es_ES entries.  It is merely an acknowldgement that the
> UI of a word processor does not contain the type of cultural context
> that commonly distinguishes national variants of Spanish, nor does
> written Spanish embody the so-called yeismo or seseo that so clearly
> distinguish spoken forms.
>
> I would note the the Sugar Labs / OLPC project uses a single es_ES
> translation at the unanimous request of our Spanish localizers (from
> all over the Spanish speaking world) as well as the education
> ministries of Peru, Uruguay and Parguay who are purchasing millions of
> XO laptops and deploying them in their schools.
>
>> uk-UA
>> mg-MG
>> ta-IN
>> lv-LV
>> am-ET
>> lt-LT
>> he-IL
>> jbo
>> ja-JP
>>
>
> In an open source project, the correct response to low language
> coverage levels is to recruit more localizers, you do not accomplish
> that by ignoring the work of those you already have.
>
>> Additionally these locales have problems:
>
>> eo : is a conlang and not worthy including (unless proven that "translator" is a "native speaker"*)
>
> I'm not sure why we should substitute your judgement of what makes a
> language "worthy" when Esperanto has gained sufficient acceptance to
> be included in the official ISO standard list of languages ISO-639
> (and variants thereof).
>
> However, for the sake of rebutting your point, I would point out that:
>
> There are in fact "native speakers" of Esperanto.
> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Native_Esperanto_speakers
>
> However I doubt that billionaire George Soros will be spending any
> time localizing AbiWord and I know of no practical means of requiring
> proof of mother tongue in translation efforts.  A translation is
> judged on it's own merits by co-linguists, not the ethnic or national
> origins of the translator.
>
> However, for numbers ranging in the thousands to millions it  an
> acquired second language.
> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Esperanto
>
> Esperanto is indeed a constructed language, which suggests that the
> rules for determining the correctness of translations require no
> special native knowledge evolved over aeons like 'natural" languages.
> In the end, all languages are constructed, some are just newer than
> others.  I would also note that you've make no similar argument
> against Lojban (jbo), which is rather inconsistent on your part.
>
>> be@latin : unless some official resource confirms Latin-based orthography to be used for Belarus language.
>
> A history of the use of a Latin orthography for Belarusian is available here:
> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Belarusian_Latin_alphabet
>
> Go to the Gnome L10n team for Belarusian (and scroll down a little)
> and you will see that they themselves recognize be@latin as a valid
> alternate orthography for Belarusian
>
> http://l10n.gnome.org/teams/be/
>
>> Until these problems are corrected, I reiterate on my suggestion do not include them in future releases.
>
> I reiterate my objections to such a capricious and arbitrary move,
> with the exception noted above for es_MX

+1.
I reiterate the fact that we can't take arbitrary decisions just for a
single person's pleasure. It's a community. All (I literally mean
that!) the users and devs who discussed on this, over the list, irc,
or elsewhere have shown their view strongly opposing this proposal.

I guess we can close this thread now, as we have discussed this matter
very clearly.

If Urmas requires any help in learning Esperanto or any other
linguistic matters, we can take them offline, or even irc may be a
better place to learn more about languages as newbies, than the public
developer list.

Thanks Chris for educating more on these, with your expertise. I found
your thoughts really useful.

>
>> ------------------------------------
>> * A proof that translator's mental age is greater than 16 would be nice too,,, but that's rather paramount.
>
> The only such measure I can imagine would be an assessment of
> emotional maturity based on the author's writings.  One of the more
> reliable hints of lower mental age would include a propensity to
> incite conflict as opposed to seeking clarity and consensus.

+1 for that!

Thank you.
Regards,
Pradeeban.

>
> cjl
> Sugar Labs Translation Team Coordinator
>

-- 
Kathiravelu Pradeeban.
Software Engineer.
WSO2 Inc.
Blog: [Llovizna] http://kkpradeeban.blogspot.com/