Re: Implementing support for barbarisms correction

From: Ramón Flores (fa2ramon@yahoo.com)
Date: Tue Sep 24 2002 - 06:09:51 EDT

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    Barbarism is a problem that manly concerns to minority
    languages, i.e. languages that are competing, in the
    same territory, with a more powerful one, called "roof
    language", for example:
     
    In Wales, Welsh is the minority language and English
    is the roof one.
    In Catalonia, Catalan is the minority language and
    Spanish is the roof one,
    In New Mexico, Spanish is the minority language and
    English is the roof one,
    In Gascony, Occitan is the minority language and
    French is the roof one,
    In Louisiana, French is the minority language and
    English is the roof one.
     
    When two languages compete in the same territory comes
    up interferences, but they are not symmetric. The roof
    language is weakly affected but the minority one can
    be strongly affected, and can disappear (glottophagy).
    One of these interferences is barbarism.

    As nowadays English is the roof language everywhere, I
    can understand that for a person whose native tongue
    is English the concept of barbarism is quite alien.
    But for many cases barbarisms is a serious problem.
    And a tool that allows to avoid them is a useful one.
     
     
    ----------------
    Jordi Mas wrote:
     
    > Does anybody have a problem with me implementing
    > this? Any other languages were this can be useful?
    >
    IMHO most users of minority languages will found
    useful this tool. At least galician user will found.
    (I am the galician translator of Abiword, and one of
    the authors of the galician dictionary).
     
    > Well, the most popular commercial Catalan spell
    > checker (WordCorrect) has a barbarism correction
    > feature, that's why I tough that it would be cool
    > to have it in Abi also.
     
    There also is a galician spell checker (Galgo) that
    corrects barbarisms.

    ----------
    Dom wrote:
    > Your English barbarism links add something very
    > important to this discussion - that a good barbarism

    > tool will need something that spell checking tools
    > lack, and that grammar checkers have, namely
    > context.
     
    Perhaps a perfect barbarism tool will need context.
    But I think it is possible to make a good one
    without context.
     
    ---------
    Dom wrote
    > Your "barbarism" suggestion seems to be more of a
    > grammar issue than a spelling one.

    Jordi wrote:
    > What we probably need to do is start designing a
    > grammar checker framework, complete
    > with a plugin interface for extensions, and design
    > the barbarism checker as a plugin for it.

    IMHO barbarism correction is something more that
    spelling, but much less than grammar. To make a
    general grammar checker that can check different
    languages is a huge task. But to modify one spell
    checker to correct barbarisms seems much more
    easier.

    ----------
    Dom wrote:
    > There is a huge difference between being a plugin
    > and not being useful at all. Some features are best
    > implemented inside of Abi. Some features best live
    > as add-ons. Sometimes the line is blurry.
     
    As a user of a spell checker that corrects barbarisms,
    I think that the right place for this tool is inside
    the spell checker, and not as a add-on. It is nor
    very useful to check barbarisms only.
     
     
    ----------
    Dom wrote:
     
    > If this is a spelling problem, I'd like to see
    > such a feature moved into ispell or aspell.
     
    Alan wrote:
    > The Gnu Aspell people probably have a better idea
    > of where this fits in to the scheme of things.

     
    This is a good point, I think that the right site to
    implement this feature is at the spell checker, so
    in ispell or aspell. But as far as I know the
    development of ispell is stopped, and Abiword uses
    ispell dictionaries not aspell ones. Moreover, at
    least in windows, Abiword can only use ispell, I
    think. Perhaps, now that aspell can be compiled in
    windows, it is time to use aspell in windows too.
     
     
    Bye
       Ramon

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