Subject: Re: GPLed AbiWord with QNX/Photon
From: Thomas Fletcher (thomasf@qnx.com)
Date: Tue Dec 21 1999 - 14:31:00 CST
On Tue, 21 Dec 1999 sterwill@abisource.com wrote:
> Thomas Fletcher wrote:
> > No worries here ... you can just think of QNX as another
> > Unix. You can buy the core OS ... which comes with the
> > standard libraries and API's. Then you can buy the windowing
> > system ... which comes with a standard/documented API and
> > programming tools. The main difference here is that because
> > QNX is a micro-kernel you can in fact just buy the components
> > that you need. There is lots of other GPL software running
> > on it so I don't think that this is any kind of an issue.
> > There are no secrets hidden in the AbiWord code, all just
> > standard API calls.
>
> But the windowing system is what concerns me. As I understand it,
> the GPL has been historically interpreted to allow applications
> linked with Motif only because Motif was shipped with the vendor's
> operating system and was not something licensed later. I've
> CC'ed Richard Stallman on this note in hopes that perhaps he's
> examined the QNX/Photon thing in the past or knows of such a
> discussion.
Sure ... but remember that the windowing system in this case
is not an integral part of the system. It isn't a library,
it is just an application just like an XServer is a specialized
application that runs to provide you with a graphics interface
(to which you can then code using a standard api).
> The reason that GPLed applications can link with X Window System
> libraries is that (1) it is commonly shipped with Unix and (2)
> many implementations of it are free software, so (1) often
> does not apply.
Yes but you wouldn't think that a user who decides not to
buy HP's windowing system from them (in favour of a free
alternative, or nothing at all) wouldn't be able to run
your product.
> > > Now to come to the point: is Photon (and all of the libraries or
> > > run-time environments that AbiWord for QNX would need) "normally
> > > distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major
> > > components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating
> > > system on which the executable runs"?
> >
> > Yup ... If you buy the photon window manager components then
> > you would be able to run a binary version of AbiWord. If you
> > buy a development kit (compiler etc) then you could compile
> > your own version of AbiWord.
>
> But to be clear, the Photon windowing stuff is not "normally distributed
> (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler,
> kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs"?
> The GPL provides the last fragment of that sentence: "...unless that
> component itself accompanies the executable." Photon is not freely
> re-distributable, is it?
Well since we are an embedded system ... highly customizable for
various client needs ... all that is "normally distributed"
is the process and kernel. It isn't often that you want to
be able to climb up a hydro pole and do a little development
on a system that looks more like a real-time executive when
it is through some companies development stage.
Typically companies would buy development seats from us ...
that would include many components: kernel/process manager,
compiler and tools, utilities, networking, specific device
drivers, graphical interfaces (X and Photon), graphical
development tools.
The problem is bending people's mind set to understand that
an OS really can be the sum of lots of little pieces ...
think of QNX just like Hurd, but on a commercial development
model where you only need to pay for what you want to use
(when you want to use it since the system is extensible).
> I'm afriad that QNX's modularity (in engineering, but more importantly
> licensing) could be the reason why AbiWord could not link with QNX's
> windowing system libraries.
I have a hard time understanding where this reasoning
comes from, I guess that I'm more a proponent of software
freedom being the ability to empower users with software
that they can easily get their hands on. The fact that
it is a window manager that you buy (I buy BeOS/Window etc)
and is integrated into the OS is totally secondary. If
I could run Windows without it's graphical interface
then I would ... oh wait that would be Dos & Windows 3.1 =-)
So if I were to get AbiWord up and running under 3.1
would I be having the same discussion. No one forces
you to buy Windows 3.1 to run with DOS ... it is an
extra that I pay more for. Now switch QNX/Neutrino
for DOS and Photon for Windows 3.1 and you have the
exact same situation.
Anxiously awaiting your response,
Thomas
-------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas (toe-mah) Fletcher QNX Software Systems
thomasf@qnx.com Neutrino Development Group
(613)-591-0931 http://www.qnx.com/~thomasf
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